Needless to say, my husband and I try to be open minded parents. We both are very socially liberal, and we both grew up in households where sexual development was openly discussed. In fact, when I was pregnant with my younger son (YS), we bought 2.5 year old OS his first book on how babies are made. So far, we've tried to answer his questions openly and honestly even when his questions involved his asking our friend Suzanne (and everyone else within Friendly's) whether she remembers when he was growing inside of my uterus. Unfortunately, four year olds don't come with a volume control switch.
I was therefore quite excited when I learned that sexuality educator Logan Levkoff, MS was looking for places to do a virtual book tour for her book Third Base Ain't What It Used to Be. I was even more excited when she picked Formula Fed and Flexible Parenting for one of her stops! I liked Logan's book because it's upfront and honest. She threads her own personal stories throughout the book while also explaining to parents why it's so important to have conversations about sex with your kids. She also gives lists of common questions asked by children so that you have some idea of what to expect, and she offers examples of how to answer the questions to provide a potential reference point. I took advantage of this interview to not only delve into a few of the intriguing areas of the book, but to resolve a question that came up in my moms group last week about explaining inappropriate language to kids.
Alex:One of the interesting dichotomies in your book is that it advances both the liberal perspective that knowledge about sexuality gives children power, while advancing the conservative perspective that parents should be the ones doing the teaching. Can you explain how these concepts go together?
Logan: I love this question - because it just goes to show us that we can all really get along. And the funny thing is, I am by no means conservative. I am a huge supporter of comprehensive sexuality education (in schools and taught by well-trained people). However, I do know that with the abstinence only agenda, it is impossible for us to rely on our schools to talk to our kids about sex. The majority of American parents support comprehensive sex ed and often (and incorrectly) assume that their schools are conducting it. That being said, why are we even relying on our schools to do the bulk of what is our responsibility as parents? Isn't this what we signed up for - talking about the good, the bad, and sometimes, the ugly? I think that I am tough on parents. I had a parent say to me once, "Thank you for doing my job." That frightened me. In a classroom, my ability to inform and educate is limited to the class period. Comprehensive sexuality education should supplement the education that we as parents give on a daily basis. Comprehensive sex ed can reinforce the facts, but ideally, we should be talking to kids about our values. (And sometimes that means being very clear about what our values are - is it really that we want our children to grow up without a healthy sense of their sexuality? I don't really think that's the case.) But to answer your question more succinctly, there is no reason why comprehensive sex ed and parent-based sex ed can't coexist peacefully (and effectively).
Alex: I enjoyed the different approaches that you shared for educating children about sex. You encourage parents to share their own experiences both as a way of connecting with their kids and as a way of providing examples of both mistakes and good decisions. I had always heard, but not believed, that it is better to keep your own past private from your kids. How do you address that perspective?
Logan: Without our pasts we couldn't possibly be the adults we are today. Those choices and experiences give us insight and perspective. Sometimes those insights are really what our children want to hear. By offering them a glimpse into our worlds, we send our children the message that we care enough about them to invite them into our life (in a new way). This doesn't mean that you have to share every little intimate detail with them, but you can tell them the context in which you and your friends made decisions about sex. When were you allowed to date? What did "going out" mean? Were people concerned about safer sex? What did your media look like? We have an incredible opportunity. Children want to get information about sex from us; they know that their peers aren't sufficient (or well-informed) educators. We have the opportunity to really make a difference in their lives.
Alex: I loved your story about the Vaginal Pride sticker that you innocently stuck on your notebook in high school that led people to believe that you were a lesbian. It seems like there is a lot of confusion about what sexuality is. I imagine that makes it hard for parents to educate their children about it. Would you mind explaining what exactly sexuality is?
Logan: Hope you weren't looking for a simple definition - because there just isn't one:) Sexuality is an innate and wonderful part of our identity, and it is far broader than our sexual orientation or whether or not we have had "sex". Our sexuality includes our sense of gender and how we express it, our body image, how we communicate, pleasure and intimacy, our reproductive drives, and yes, our sexual orientation, sexual behaviors, and desires. We express our sexuality differently as we grow up. It is by no means static. The main idea is to explain to kids that we are all sexual beings - regardless of whether or not we have had sex. We want them to respect their sexuality because it is such a big part of who we are and a tremendous part of our overall health.
Alex: You book is very supportive of masturbation. Do you find that parents, particularly parents of girls, have a hard time hearing that?
Logan: I think that teen girls have a hard time hearing that:) And some of this depends on age, too. When toddlers and little kids masturbate (both boys and girls), it's not consciously sexual. It just feels good. And it's cool. Wow, look what my body can do!
But as a whole, there are so many problems with assuming that only boys masturbate or worse, thinking that only boys should masturbate. I fear that when a girl doesn't feel good about her vulva, if she thinks it is dirty or gross or smelly (or all of those other negative descriptions that we heard growing up), she winds up making poor choices when it comes to sex. And if she doesn't know the power (and pleasure) that she can get from touching her own body, she learns to rely on partners to "make" her sexual - to "make" her feel pleasure. That may never happen. And girls need to know that they are capable of sexual pleasure and satisfaction on their own. That doesn't mean that masturbation should be a substitute for intimate connections with another person, but girls who are confused, curious, and desirous (as many hormonal teens are) may seek it out from someone else because they are not empowered by their own bodies.
Alex: I particularly liked the way you encouraged parents to share both sides of the arguments for different, difficult decisions including abortion and sex. I agree that facts need to be presented as facts, regardless of whether or not a parent agrees with the implications of the fact, but I also know how difficult it is to explain something that conflicts with your values while still articulating those values. Can you share why it is so important to do both?
Logan: There is no doubt that it can be difficult for parents to present both sides of an issue, especially when they feel passionate about that subject (abortion and premarital sex are two examples of those tough topics). And there is no reason why you shouldn't express your personal values. However, one of the skills our children lack today is the ability to think critically. We can teach them to do so - to look at a subject and explore both sides in an intellectual way. While they are young, chances are that their values will be similar, if not identical, to yours. So even if you provide them with the counterpoint, it doesn't mean that they will adopt that belief. When they are teenagers, they become far more sophisticated, and will want you to be honest with them about an issue. They will be suspicious if you don't tell them the whole truth (especially when it comes to factual information). In Third Base..., I tell parents that it's okay if you don't believe in masturbation, but you can't tell your children that bad things will happen to their body if they choose to do so. If our children find out that we haven't been completely forthcoming, they will look elsewhere for information (and stop using us as a sounding board). But we should keep in mind that eventually children become teens and teens become adults who start to make their own independent decisions about how they live their lives. What we can do is lay the groundwork and know that we have provided them with the tools necessary to create their own set of values, whatever they may be.
Alex:In explaining the importance of being open and honest right from the beginning with young kids, you included an example of acknowledging when a baby boy has an erection. I took that advice when I changed my one year-old son's diaper in front of my four year-old son. My four year-old was impressed that there was a name to go along with what he was seeing, and it turned out to be an easy conversation without any embarrassment. I am interested in how open you believe parents should be around the negative use of adult language. For example, a friend recently overheard her six year-old son calling her five year-old son a douchebag. Another friend was recently asked by her nine year-old daughter to explain what "the finger" means. My friends could not come to a consensus as to whether they should define the technical meaning of douchebag and "the finger", the implied meaning, or nothing at all. What do you think?
Logan: First, with respect to the "douchebag" issue (that sounds funny), I would ask the 6 year old where he heard that term, and what he think that it means. From there, you can gauge where to take the conversation. But "douchebag" is tricky, because women shouldn't be douching in the first place (it's bad for the vagina). I don't think that you have to go into the intricacies of why people douche, but I do think that if he asks what it means, you can say that a douche is something some women (definitely not all) use to clean their vagina - assuming that he knows what a vagina is:) And from there, he probably won't want to use the phrase, because to him, it doesn't make sense as an insult. (Quite frankly, it doesn't make that much sense to me either.)
As for "The Finger", start the same way. Ask what she thinks it means, how it was used when she heard it, and find out if she knows what finger we are actually talking about. I don't think that we have to tell our children that "The Finger" is synonymous with "Fuck You", but we can say that people use the finger as a means of being disrespectful to someone else...and it is always better to use our words and talk something through than to be rude.
Alex:I know the point of your book is that parents are the best educators. At the same time, I found your personal stories really connected with me, and brought back memories from my teenage days that I had forgotten. Would you consider writing a book for teens?
Logan: I would love to write a book for teens. I hope that there would be interest for it. Perhaps you have figured out my next project! Do you think that they would learn from the experiences on their own or a sex ed book for them that incorporates those stories
Wow that was really interesting to read. I haven't been real up-front about sex with my kids, but I answer their (few) questions as honestly as I can...
Sounds like a good book! I am really up front with my kids (check out some of my recent conversations with my boys) about sex, body parts (hate cutesy names), and why my 8 year old can't sleep at his friend's house (a girl). It is really helpful to be up front from day one. I don't relish saying "vagina" and "masturbation" with my kids, but I don't hesitate, either. Justin was told that the sleepover was out because 8 year old kids can get curious about their bodies which can lead to inappropriate touching. This conversation then led to sex, babies, diseases, maturity, etc.
Professional Mom of two cats, a dog, an ant farm, and oh yeah...two boys: a 6 year old and a 3 year old. Also found in my house is my husband who is known on this blog as The Big Giraffe.
For those of us who didn't get an instruction manual with our babies and for whom parenting hasn't always gone as planned. On a more serious note this blog is about supporting a woman's ability to make her own choices about parenting including the choice, for whatever reason, to bottle feed her babies formula.
Wow that was really interesting to read. I haven't been real up-front about sex with my kids, but I answer their (few) questions as honestly as I can...